KFAN Rube Chat

First, I just want to say that I think Ron Gardenhire and his staff are the best in the majors.  If they could improve on anything, it's teaching to hit with power.  But, I won't argue with consistancy in the win column year after year after year (with a break every so often)

However, WHAT was Gardenhire thinking when he brought Brian Bass into the game against the Redsox last night.

Baker pitches 7 steller inning against a Wild Card team, on national television, with a 0-0 score.  At this point, Gardenhire has an opportunity to really get the momentum going for the organization, on national TV no less, by going for the win.  All he needs to do his put his most reliable, and well rested, Jess Crain on the mound to start the inning.  But instead.......

Gardy goes with his inning eater rookie Brian Bass who has a 4.45 ERA, and only 25 K in 50 innings.  Talk about being thrown to the wolves at Fenway Park.  What would happen next is almost TOO predictable.

Crain was coming off 2 games rest, and is touching 98 mph on the gun.  Hell, Gardy had to bring him in anyways.  To me, he's your go-to guy in that situation.  If Crain shuts down the Redsox in the 8th, you force Francona to make a decision on whether or not you go with Papalbon in the 9th with a 0-0 tie.  At that point, you put yourself in the position to counter with Nathan.  Maybe you force a 10th or 11th inning, in which case the Twins have the upper hand.  The Redsox bullpen has been horrible this year, and the Twins have the advantage in that situation, head to head.  But instead, Gardy goes with the "experiment" on national TV in the 8th, and DESTROYS a masterful outing by Scott Baker. 

You go with Crain to start the 8th, Twins win in the 11th.

Weazel:

First, I just want to say that I think Ron Gardenhire and his staff are the best in the majors.  If they could improve on anything, it's teaching to hit with power.  But, I won't argue with consistancy in the win column year after year after year (with a break every so often)

However, WHAT was Gardenhire thinking when he brought Brian Bass into the game against the Redsox last night.

Baker pitches 7 steller inning against a Wild Card team, on national television, with a 0-0 score.  At this point, Gardenhire has an opportunity to really get the momentum going for the organization, on national TV no less, by going for the win.  All he needs to do his put his most reliable, and well rested, Jess Crain on the mound to start the inning.  But instead.......

Gardy goes with his inning eater rookie Brian Bass who has a 4.45 ERA, and only 25 K in 50 innings.  Talk about being thrown to the wolves at Fenway Park.  What would happen next is almost TOO predictable.

Crain was coming off 2 games rest, and is touching 98 mph on the gun.  Hell, Gardy had to bring him in anyways.  To me, he's your go-to guy in that situation.  If Crain shuts down the Redsox in the 8th, you force Francona to make a decision on whether or not you go with Papalbon in the 9th with a 0-0 tie.  At that point, you put yourself in the position to counter with Nathan.  Maybe you force a 10th or 11th inning, in which case the Twins have the upper hand.  The Redsox bullpen has been horrible this year, and the Twins have the advantage in that situation, head to head.  But instead, Gardy goes with the "experiment" on national TV in the 8th, and DESTROYS a masterful outing by Scott Baker. 

You go with Crain to start the 8th, Twins win in the 11th.

First off welcome to Rube Chat.

Go read last night's game thread, this was a hot topic there.

I have to say that everyone in our bullpen not named Nathan has been a rollercoaster this year. They've all had mostly good outings but they all have had some meltdowns also. So as much as I was surprised we turned to Bass last night (and I said "I'm not sure I go with Bass right here") I think I would have cringed if we brought in anyone. It's too bad Baker's only really bad inning was his last one because it would have been nice to trot him out there for the eighth inning but he was getting shelled in the seventh inning by the bottom of their order so that wasn't a logical option.

Nicely put.

Yeah, for a game that had all the tension of a playoff game, throwing a rookie out there at that time was really questionable, especially one who doesn't have "phenom" stuff to begin with.  It's not like Bass is the same as K-Rod was when he was a rookie.

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I am a well-known Ted Thompson hater.

I agree, everyone other then Nathan has been suspect at times.  However, I look at Crain's stats, game log, etc, and I just feel like he is the go-to guy.  I think that Crain has needed some time to get back into form after the injury.  But, his velocity is back to where it was when he came out of the minors, and I feel like the Twins can lean on him in a pinch.

My other train of thought is that Gardy needs to know who can pitch under pressure, and who can't.  The only way to figure it out is to throw these guys to the wolves, and let them fend for themselves.  But, in doing so, you sacrafice a few games now for better knowledge in the long run.  Maybe?  Maybe not? 

Red Sox on National TV though!!!!  It would have been SWEET!!!

It's obivous now.  The Twins don't need another bat, or even another middle infielder right now.  They need a solid veteran right handed relief pitcher behind Crain and Guerrier.  Otherwise, PUT EITHER CRAIN OR GUERRIER ON THE MOUND WHEN IT COUNTS.

Good post, I agree.

I disagree with alot of Gardys pitching moves.  last night was no exception.  I think baker was still under 100 pitches too and he yanked him

its infuriating to me

I agree on needed another shut down reliever, but have to disagree with not needing another bat, or atleast a bat that can hit around .300 and drive in some runs, and play SS so we can say bye to Harris, Everrett, and keep Punto as the utility guy

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I could spend my lifetime getting high, never wanna live in a suit and tie.

BigKev:

I disagree with alot of Gardys pitching moves.  last night was no exception.  I think baker was still under 100 pitches too and he yanked him

its infuriating to me

Gardy's PC he said that Baker came to him and said he had nothing left in the tank, that's why Gardy pulled him last night, but going to Bass can be ripped as much as you like

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I could spend my lifetime getting high, never wanna live in a suit and tie.

I would have gone with Crain as well, but all of us can second guess. Here's my thing, if Bass would have gone three up, three down, do you still criticize and ask the same question? If so, then it's a good question and topic ... if not, then this thread is worthless. I for one wouldn't have even noticed not bringing in Crain if Bass doesn't give up a run, so I can't be all that infuriated about it.

Weazel:

I agree, everyone other then Nathan has been suspect at times.  However, I look at Crain's stats, game log, etc, and I just feel like he is the go-to guy.  I think that Crain has needed some time to get back into form after the injury.  But, his velocity is back to where it was when he came out of the minors, and I feel like the Twins can lean on him in a pinch.

My other train of thought is that Gardy needs to know who can pitch under pressure, and who can't.  The only way to figure it out is to throw these guys to the wolves, and let them fend for themselves.  But, in doing so, you sacrafice a few games now for better knowledge in the long run.  Maybe?  Maybe not? 

Red Sox on National TV though!!!!  It would have been SWEET!!!

It's obivous now.  The Twins don't need another bat, or even another middle infielder right now.  They need a solid veteran right handed relief pitcher behind Crain and Guerrier.  Otherwise, PUT EITHER CRAIN OR GUERRIER ON THE MOUND WHEN IT COUNTS.

we are now 2-1 against the red sox on ESPN this year.  should be 3-0...

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yay sports!

BigNels87 (11:36:01 pm): rodgers will be number 1 qb in the nfc this year

Crain or Guerrier should have started the 8th no question about it. That's been there role since Neshek went down. Why deviate from that at all, especially with a rookie.

You also don't pitch to Manny in that situation. I don't care if he's 0 for his last 100!! You set up the double play with Lowell and or Youk. Manny has been an RBI machine his entire career, you don't pitch to him with first base open with a rookie throwing.

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" It takes a lot of balls to golf the way I do"

Bass is Gardy's Nicky Punto of pitchers

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"I've never believed the final score is the deciding factor in a basketball game."-Ex-Cavs coach Randy Wittman after a loss to Phoenix (1/22/00)

First of all, Pedroia is a pest and he looked like he was swinging no matter where the pitch was.  Bass was wanting to get ahead of him and he just took a hack at it. 

Second of all, Bass is being groomed for a setup man and he needs to be put in pressure packed situations, lastnight being one of those of course.

Jesse Crain is not the most reliable reliever.  A reliable reliever is someone that maybe gives up a hit or a walk per inning.. i.e. one ..not each...hence the stat WHIP (WALKS and HIT per INNINGS PITCHED).  A good reliever has a WHIP of around 1.00 - 1.30.  A great reliever has a WHIP of .00 and .90.

Crains numbers since 2006 according to aarongleeman.com.

ERA      SO%      BB%     OAVG     IRS%  (Inherited Runners Scored (or IS))
 3.99     17.9        5.2         .269         30.4

 

Here has what Crain has done over his past few performances.

DATE	OPP	RESULT	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	SO	GB	TBF	#Pit	HBP	Dec.	Rel.	ERA
7/7	@BOS	L 0-1	0.2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	9	0	--	--	2.80
7/4	CLE	W 12-3	1.0	2	0	0	0	0	0	2	5	23	0	--	--	2.88
7/2	DET	W 7-0	1.0	2	0	0	0	0	1	1	5	17	0	--	--	2.97
6/30	DET	L 4-5	0.0	1	1	1	0	1	0	0	2	6	0	--	--	2.70
6/26	@SD	W 4-3	0.2	1	0	0	0	0	2	1	3	14	0	--	H	2.76
6/24	@SD	W 3-1	1.0	2	1	0	0	0	0	3	4	17	0	--	BlSv	2.84

Crain had a WHIP of 2.00 his previous three games. 

Scott Linebrink  #71  RP White Sox - has a WHIP of .86.

MLB Statistics Glossary

BATTING STATISTICS #P/PA Pitches seen per plate appearance 2B Doubles 3B Triples AB At-bats Avg Batting average H divided by AB BB Bases on balls BB/K Walks Per Strikeout BB/PA Walks Per Plate Appearance CS Caught stealing FB Fly balls hit, excluding home runs G Games played G/F Ground ball/fly ball ratio GB divided by FB GIDP Grounded into double play H Hits HBP Hit by pitch HR Home runs IBB Intentional bases on balls IsoP Isolated Power (Slugging Percentage - Batting Average) LOB Runners left on base OBP On-base percentage (H + BB + HBP) divided by (AB + BB + HBP + SF) OPS On-base percentage plus slugging percentage. See OBP, above, and Slg, below, for definitions OW% Offensive winning percentage. The theoretical winning percentage of a team comprising nine of the same players (e.g. nine Ken Griffey Jrs.). 1) Figure runs created per 27 outs [Note: Total outs = (AB - H + C + GIDP + SH + SF)]. 2) Divide by league average runs per game. 3) Square the result. 4) Divide that figure by 1 + itself Qualified year-to-date In order to qualify for batting titles in averaged categories (Avg, Slg, OBP, OPS, RC, OW%, #P/PA, G/F), a player must average at least 3.1 plate appearances for every game his team has played. Sorting by qualified year-to-date excludes all players not currently on pace to reach that minimum R Runs RBI Runs batted in RC Runs created [(H + BB + HBP - CS - GIDP) times (Total bases + .26[BB - IBB + HBP] + .52[SH + SF + SB])] divided by (AB + BB + HBP + SH+ SF) RC27 Runs created per 27 outs (Estimates how many runs per game a team made up of nine of the same player would score) SB Stolen bases SecA Secondary Average (A way to look at a player's extra bases gained, independent of Batting Average) (TB - H + BB + SB - CS) / AB SF Sacrifice flies SH Sacrifice hits Slg Slugging percentage TB divided by AB SO Strikeouts TB Total bases Hits + 2B + (3B times 2) + (HR times 3) TPA Total plate appearances AB + BB + HBP + SF + SH + times reached on defensive interference XBH Extra Base Hits 2B + 3B + HR PITCHING STATISTICS #P/IP Pitches thrown per inning #P/GS Pitches thrown per start #Pit Pitches thrown 2B Doubles allowed 3B Triples allowed AGS Average Game Score. See Game Score, below Avg Batting average allowed BB Bases on balls Bk Balks BlSv Blown saves. See SvOp, below, for definition of a save situation CG Complete games CS Runners caught stealing Dec Decision (Win, loss) ER Earned runs ERA Earned-run average (ER times 9) divided by IP FB Fly balls hit against G/F Ground ball/fly ball ratio against GB divided by FB GB Ground balls hit against GIDP Grounded into double plays against GF Games finished GS Games started GSc Game Score. Start with 50 points. Add 1 point for each out recorded, (3 points per inning). Add 2 points for each inning completed after the 4th. Add 1 point for each strikeout. Subtract 2 points for each hit allowed. Subtract 4 points for each earned run allowed. Subtract 2 points for each unearned run allowed. Subtract 1 point for each walk. H Hits against Hld Holds. Earned when a relief pitcher enters a game in a save situation (see SvOp, below, for definition), records at least one out, and leaves the game without having given up the lead HR Home runs allowed IBB Intentional bases on balls IP Innings pitched IR Inherited runners. Runners on base when a relief pitcher enters a game IS Inherited runners scored. Number of inherited runners (see IR, above) to score while a particular pitcher is still in the game L Losses OBP On-base percentage allowed. See OBP in Batting Statistics, above, for definition of OBP ORuns Opponents' runs scored (average, per nine innings pitched) while the pitcher of record. Qualified year-to-date In order to qualify for pitching titles in averaged categories (ERA, WPct, #P/IP, RS, ORuns, Slg, OBP, Avg, CS%, G/F), a player must average at least one inning pitched for every game his team has played. Sorting by qualified year-to-date excludes all players not currently on pace to reach that minimum QS Quality starts R Runs RBI Runs batted in allowed Rel Relief decision (Save, blown save, hold) RS Run support. Team's runs scored (average, per 9 innings pitched) while the pitcher of record SB Stolen bases allowed SF Sacrifice flies allowed SH Sacrifice hits allowed ShO Shutouts Slg Slugging percentage allowed. See Slg in Batting Statistics, above, for definition SO Strikeouts Sv Saves. Earned when a pitcher finishes a game without having given up the lead after entering in a save situation (see SvOp, below, for definition) SvOp Save opportunities. When a pitcher 1) enters the game with a lead of three or fewer runs and pitches at least one inning, 2) enters the game with the potential tying run on base, at bat, or on deck, or 3) pitches three or more innings with a lead and is credited with a save by the official scorer TBF Total batters faced WHIP Walks plus hits divided by Innings Pitched W Wins WPct Winning percentage Wins divided by (Wins + losses) WP Wild pitches FIELDING STATISTICS A Assists CERA Catcher's earned-run average. Earned-run average of club's pitchers with a particular catcher behind the plate CS Runners caught stealing CS% Percentage of runners caught stealing DP Double plays E Errors FPct Fielding percentage (PO + A) divided by (PO + A + E) G Games played GS Games started Inn Innings PB Passed balls PCS Pitchers' caught stealing. Total runners caught stealing when the player who initiates the fielding play is the pitcher PO Putouts POA Pickoff attempts Qualified year-to-date In order to qualify for fielding titles in averaged categories (FPct., RF, CS%, CERA), a player must meet the following qualifiers: Catchers must play 1/2 of their team's games; Pitchers must average at least one inning pitched for each of their team's games; Position players must play 2/3 of their team's games. Sorting by qualified year-to-date excludes all players not currently on pace to reach that minimum RF Range factor (PO + A) divided by 9 innings SBA Stolen bases allowed TC Total chances ZR Zone rating. The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.

 

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Voted 'Top Gun KFAN Twins Poster' by Stegaman Quirple's Fantasy Baseball Zone.

Yuck, I think this thread just got hijacked.

I'm amused how the team can lose 1-0 and yet fans gripe about how the pitching staff was handled.

They lost last night's game because of their lack of hitting. Can Joe Mauer and Delmon Young be blended into one player?-- I'm sick of Joe watching the first pitch fastball go right down the middle-- meanwhile Delmon swings at the first pitch inside and at his shoulders.

 

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"Ogre, you a$$hole."