KFAN Rube Chat

Ripping off Souhan now? Is that allowed?

I have to disagree with you on this one Dan.  We don't know what type of player Mauer would be in another position.  He has a very good arm and decent speed.  If he can stay healthy and a little less dinged up, he may develop into more of a power hitter.  He is still very young and I think he could turn into a 300+, 20 HR, 80 RBI hitter in a 2 or 3 spot.

I'm no Mauer apologist and I love most of Barreiro's work, but this, "Put him in left field, and the Twins lose much of what gave Mauer a true chance to set himself apart." is just stupid.

So, if he goes to left and leads the league in hitting, that wouldn't set him apart?  

Each year, how many guys lead the league in hitting?  One!  

I'd say that's setting yourself apart . . . apart from every other guy in the league.

You're off on this one Dan.

It's obvious that you don't like Mauer personally; probably because the Twins talked him up too much before he did anything.  But you've lost objectivity here.

TR

Keep him at catcher...didn't the Twins come out and say the latest injury had nothing to do with the fact that he was a catcher, and the catching drills were smoothly going along during rehab...it only hampered him when he runs.

When Hartman has Terry Ryan on again...can we refrain from the calls that we should move Mauer around BECAUSE Redmond is hitting so well. I like Redmond, but the infatuation with him as a every day player is ridiculous. Plus, that last Anaheim series that he had behind the plate was quite revealing that Redmond is getting long in the tooth. Missed two tags at home plate, even though he was credited with getting Vlad out. Angels were stealing left and right on him in the 16-3 debacle. And he has been pretty brutal at pop ups behind home plate and foul territory...the sun was bad in some, but other ones he just defers to a corner fielder to get (1st and 3rd) and hardly makes an attempt.

I've agreed with Dan for a long time that Mauer (at least for now) is an excellent #2 hitter, but not really a #3.  However, I'm perplexed by the extent to which people use Mauer's catching abilities either as an excuse for his lack of power production, OR as a credit towards his eternal greatness.  First off, I don't think Gardy is anywhere close to abandoning Mauer as a catcher.  I don't think you'll see that this year, for certain, and he'd much rather use him as a DH until they gain more confidence in his ability to stay healthy.  But is there any evidence that catching is the reason for his injuries?  There hasn't been a whole lot said about how this current injury came about.  The 2004 injury, if I remember correctly, occured when he slid to catch a foul pop-up behind the plate, but that could have happened in the outfield or 3B as well.

Much like goaltenders in hockey nowadays are required to be much better athletes than they were in the days of the "Gumper," the catcher position in baseball has evolved too.  Guys like Posada, Piazza, and Victor Martinez hit for consistent power and played nearly every day behind the plate.  Is there really any evidence that Posada becomes a 45 HR guy, had they moved him to the outfield?  I don't think so.

Mauer's defense as a C is important, but it's also overrated.  A lot of homers credit him for "handling the staff" and helping pitchers like Reyes and Bonser improve their game.  Well, does that argument work in reverse?  In other words, now that Matt Gurrier is pitching better (with Redmond catching) than he did last year are we going to also blame his '06 numbers on Mauer?  Of course not.

Mauer may not be exactly what fans thought he was (a 30 HR guy), but he IS a great hitter, and the Twins need him, regardless of his position.  But if he's injury prone, then he's injury prone, and I'm not sure throwing a 6'5" at a position he's not trained for (like 3B) makes any sense.  It may just be that we have to treat Mauer like the A's treat an older catcher like Piazza: he's our catcher...unless physical limitations force us to use him as a DH.  We're lucky we have Redmond right now.

Shawn Bradley has an excellent point about the nature of the injury.

Do we really know that Mauer would be injury-free at another position?  No.  However, for all the accolades we've been hearing about Mauer's abilities as a catcher, what the Twins have truly missed the last 3-4 weeks is his bat.  In other word's, I think Barreiro (and definitely Souhan) overrate Mauer's value as the catcher.  This is a tough call, though, because a long-term, versatile catcher is never a bad thing for a team, and it would be great if Mauer could be that guy.

Remember, though...we made it to the playoffs with Henry Blanco behind the plate...an old veteran who was more valuable catching than hitting.  Mike Redmond, for all his hitting spark, is also more valuable as a catcher than a hitter (it just so happens that at times, in our lineup, he looks like a superstar hitter).  Has anyone been dissatisfied with Redmond's catching abilities?  I don't think so...in fact, he's proven to be very durable.  

Ideally, we'd like to have Redmond as the back-up and Mauer as the starting catcher.  So overall I agree with Dan, but rest assured if another injury comes up with Mauer, change will be in order.  We just have to hope that it's not the type of injury that removes him for a full season, such as was the case in 2004.

And one more quick point...Why is Mauer more valuable to the TWINS as a catcher than a 3B or LF?  Doesn't that presuppose that the Twins have the type of 3B or LF you'd associate with those positions?  Mauer is clearly an upgrade over Tyner, Ford, or Punto...if that's the best the Twins are going to try to throw out at those positions.

So let's say he moved to left, and ended up hitting .330 something over 20 years,  but only had say 200 HRs.   Somebody who did that wouldn't be considered an all time great hitter?  So you're saying that Tony Gwynn isn't a great hitter now Dan?.   I know Dan abhors hates Sid so much that he abhors giving the slightest bit of credit to anybody born within this states boarders, but give me a break.  Incidentally, by refusing to acknowledge that ANYTHING good ever came out of this state, how does that make you any more impartial than Sid?

That point being made, I'd have to add that I agree that the 'move Mauer' campaign is just a wee bit reactionary at this point.  He got injured a couple years ago in a freak play sliding for a pop up that could've happened to anybody at any postition, and after that he's been relatively healthy until now.  Let

I can care less about Joe's career legacy. If it means that he can't catch anymore, so be it.

It's time for him to start being the new third baseman next year.  He is too much of a big investment to make him catch. His body simply can not go through the wear and tear again. It's just time to move on and try to go to a different avenue because this can't keep happening again. I understand that his value comes from catching, but what is the point if he gets hurt twice season.

Mike Redmond is more capable of that position. He can hit the ball well and he can work well with pitchers. He is up to the challenge. The team is in good hands.

I know Joe loves the catching aspect of the game, but considering that he has been hurt too often, this team can not afford any more risk especially since he got a 4-year extension in the spring.

The best part about Joe being the third baseman is that we can finally see the end of the Nick Punto era, which can not start soon enough.

MN-
Thought you were a Brewers fan now....

I agree with MN - is it the Twins duty to allow Mauer to create a legacy as a catcher or to win baseball games?  If he is too selfish to move to a position that is easier on the body in a few years than move his ass out of town.  But from what I've seen he is all about winning and would be willing to move to do so.  

you guys that want Mauer to move to 3rd to realize that Mike Redmond is 36 years old right?  he cant be an effective everyday catcher at this point in his career.  also, what makes you think Mauer can even play 3rd base?  its one of the tougher positions to field, its not like its just something he can pick up.

It takes discipline and great work ethic. Joe  has that so I think he can make the transition seamlessly. Anyone can play in any position. It just takes willpower.

Mike Redmond can handle the chore for two more years and then maybe Jose Morales can develop into an everyday catcher or this draft pick that the Twins drafted yesterday. Mike has done a very good job playing everyday. He has done more than the Twins asked him to do.

Right again MNSports... - What do you say we trade for David Wells and make him our every day left fielder?  You said it yourself, "... anyone can play any in position.."  just a little will power right?

God are you stupid.....

Mauer is a catcher first, and a team leader second.  If catching shortens his career, than so be it.  I'm sure someone will replace him.  

What he needs to do, is hit with runners on base with 2 outs.  That will define greatness.  Right now, I think that stat is below par.

SantoriniMike – Great point

MNSportsFanatic said:
“Mike Redmond can handle the chore for two more years and then maybe Jose Morales can develop into an everyday catcher or this draft pick that the Twins drafted yesterday. Mike has done a very good job playing everyday. He has done more than the Twins asked him to do.”

The most games Redmond has played in 1 season:   89 (MN- There are 162 games in a season)

In 9 seasons at the major league level Mike Redmond has played more than 80 games in 1 season: 4 times (Once again MN- are 162 games in a season)

Between 2003 & 2006 Mike Redmond has played 232 games of 810 games: That 29% of possible games, less than 1/3 of a season.

In 2005 Mauer played: 131 games (MN if you didn’t catch it the first two times - There are 162 games in a season)

In 2006 Mauer played: 140 games (MN- One, Six, Two)

Of 324 games Mauer played a total of 271 Games (That’s 84% of games played, well more than 2/3 of a season)

You want to put a player who has never played more than 89 games in a season, and is 36 years old at catcher everyday for two more years??

Mauers 2004 injury, if I remember correctly, was caused when he slid from the turf to the warning track at Metrodome.

Now because he has gone on the DL for 30 days you want to put him at 3rd base for Redmond???  A guy that has played less than half of the possible games he could have in his career. But now that he’s 36 and a 9 year veteran he’s ready to play everyday.

On May 19th
MNSportsFanatic said:
“Terry should be savaged for expecting way too much out of guys like Nick Punto, Josh Rabe, Jason Tyner, Luis Rodriguez, and other role players.”

On June 8th
MNSportsFanatic said:
“…maybe Jose Morales can develop into an everyday catcher or this draft pick that the Twins drafted yesterday.”
So what are you saying MN???
That we shouldn’t trust Terry Ryan’s judgments when they are slumping but we should trust him to make the right decision when drafting a replacement for Mauer??

I’m a little confused here?? Do you know anything about baseball???

Or

Have you been watching too much of the Brewers to know whats going on with the Twins that you can’t make a logical comment???

The "one-of-us lobby" is all in your bald head

I see the great Joe Mauer, who is becoming more of hype than substance, decided that he did not want to play in yesterday's finale against the Nationals, who took the series this weekend.

I have had it with the Twins coddling this guy since the day he was drafted. Enough is enough. How do you become tired after three games? Either he lacks toughness or he is being coddled. Maybe the Twins are protecting the investment, but wouldn't it be nice if Mauer started manning up and tell Gardenhire to demand that he wants to play. Would it be too much to ask? Mauer is not a kid anymore. He is one of the team's established stars for cripes sake. Stars need to set the tone everyday. Mauer is the face of the franchise. If you are one of the faces of the franchise, you need to lead by example like playing through aches and pains.

Morneau played with a broken nose this year. Mike Redmond played with broken bones this year. Torii has played through bruises and knee injuries. Johan Santana pitched with a bad back at times last year. If those guys can do it, why can't the golden boy from St. Paul do the same. I mean Mauer can be the DH on the days that he can't play. Is it that hard?

I just wonder how tough Mauer is really. This is something the Twins never could have dreamed of when they were drafting him.

Either way, him getting days off need to end. He has to play through the pain and tired. You are never going to have a perfect body during the course of the season no matter how hard you try.

Mauer has to start toughening up. When his backup catcher can play with broken bones, I expect Mauer to do the same.

MN-
No comment on the stats and facts I produced??

You are a moron, three days ago you wanted him moved from Catcher to third base in order to keep him healthy, now you want him to paly thru the pain?!?!?!?!

You change your mind more than my wife!!!! You are a chowder...

MNSportsFan is easily the biggest blowhard and dumbass on this blog.  I can't believe I read half these comments.  I feel like I am losing braincells every time I read one of his posts (and believe me, I need as many as I can keep.)

Ak destroying MNs credibility is the best ever....that was phenomenal.

I can feel Lew breaking out at any moment....hope Gardy keeps him in there against the Braves...

Can anyone vouch for the HR in the first inning yesterday being foul?  I was at the game and couldn't tell from my angle...that was awesome though...a rare moment in baseball when you get a call reversed.  Biggest moment of the game by far--we went from down 2-0 to up 3-0 in ten minutes.

That HR was honestly one of the hardest to judge in regards to being fair or foul, that I've seen in a loooong time.  I could see it having gone either way, to tell you the truth.

Not to separate my shoulders patting myself on the back (OK, I'm going to)....

Why was I the only one in the ballpark who understood the call had been reversed after the umps broke out of their huddle and one of them signaled "foul"????  I jumped up and down cheering and looked like an idiot in my section...and no one in the lower bowl even figured it out until the runner from second came back out of the dugout???

I thought that was kind of a sad statement about our baseball fans....we know how to cheer for Mauer and scream Lewwww, but we don't know the difference between a homerun signal and a foul ball signal?????

(No this is not an invitation for Brewers fans to chime in...the Brewers still suck and our fan base is still superior)

Lew-
I think most fans, especially those that aren’t really hardcore rubes, didn’t realize calls get overturned in baseball because theres no instant replay. So when Young trotted around the bases they thought it was gone and when Gardy came out they just figured he was putting on a show, not realizing that eventhough there is no instant replay the umps can overturn the initial call.

As far as MN goes…. Its not that hard to savage someone who contradicts themselves as much as MN does, and with as much conviction as MN does. MN defines “7 outta 10”.

Mauer is a petulant crybaby.

I'm tired of him.

I would trade him while there's still value and build the team offensively around Hunter and Morneausy.  You can't afford all three, so get rid of the guy with the injury issues.

Wait, I forgot he's one of us, so unfortunately this will never happen.